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The Heart of Digital Equity

What is Digital Inclusion?  Today we continue our series on the issues of the digital divide with Scott Henley and Susan Kraurbauer of  

  1. Personal Vs Corporate – How to Help
  2. Why Mobile isn’t enough
  3. Return on Community

The mission of Digitunity is to eliminate the technology gap, through and with a network of stakeholders and solutions, so that everyone can thrive in a digitally connected society. Having a connected, working computer and the skills to use it is a fundamental need in today’s society. We envision a day when everyone is included, and a new world of opportunities is available to all people so that no one is left behind.

Heart of Digital Equity Transcript

Tim Kubiak 0:04
We’ve talked before about the digital divide, and how it’s both an economic and an educational problem in the United States. We’re gonna go deeper into that how you can get involved and how corporations can truly make a difference today. As always, thanks for listening to bow ties in business. And I’m your host, Tim Kubiak. Hi. And once again, welcome back to the show. Today, I’m joined by Scott and Susan from digital unity. And we’re going to talk about the digital divide in a different approach. In the past, we’ve talked about conductivity as the issue today, we’re really gonna focus on devices. So with that, Scott, Susan, welcome to the show. Can you take a couple minutes, please introduce yourself?

Scott Henley 0:43
Sure. Yeah. Thank you, Tim. My name is Scott Henley. I’m the Executive Director of Digital Realty. And our organization, as you said, is focused on device ownership. It’s the heart of digital equity. And it’s such an important facet, important facet of folks being able to participate and thrive in our digital society, it’s kind of hard to believe, but even in 2021, there’s 55 million Americans that don’t have a computer at home. And then there’s 10s of millions of additional households that don’t have enough computers for concurrent use by, you know, multiple kids or multiple parents working at home and things like that. So the issue is deep, it’s pervasive, and it’s persistent. And that’s what we’re working to, to try and

Tim Kubiak 1:29
tackle. And I know we’re gonna get into it more today. So for people who like numbers, they do a lot of original research, and we’re gonna make sure we touch on some of that. So thanks, Susan, community self, please,

Sue Krautbauer 1:40
Sure, happy to do so. So I’m Susan Krautbauer. And I have spent 20 plus years in the technology space in the aftermarket services, contract manufacturing, service, service delivery. And, and so I come from the same spot as many of your listeners in the tech space is firmly planted in the tech space. But I’ve been a longtime believer in the work of digits, unity, which has been doing this work for over 36 years. And first I was what I call a cheerleader and a supporter, and then had the honor to be a board member, and just really took a look at what I was going to do with my life and said, I’m going to put my passion and my purpose with my paycheck, pursued Scott for a job and came on board as their senior director of strategy and development right before the pandemic hit. And, and my passion has been seeing the the results of what one single computer can do when it’s put into those hands to those end users to those constituents, the kids that don’t have a computer or have never had a computer, a you know, a new immigrant that that is just trying to, you know, find their way through this new culture called, you know, the United States of America to you know, the elderly, working with the elderly, and seeing how, especially during the time of the pandemic, having a tablet or a laptop, to connect to their loved ones, and and not be isolated during, you know, eight these 18 months and more, is just something that resonated with me. And so that is my passion as what I call it digital equity champion.

Tim Kubiak 3:30
So let’s start there. What is digital inclusion? Everybody defines it a little bit differently, you know, and how does it move society forward? Really?

Scott Henley 3:41
Yeah, from, from my perspective, digital inclusion is is giving everyone the ability to participate in our digital society. So that means not only the device, and the conductivity, but the skills to be able to thrive, and the supports that that help them continue to be successful. Because this is such a fragile thing. When marginalized individuals, if we’re able to solve their issue and help them get a computer, and a connection to the Internet, if that computer breaks, then they’re dead in the water, they’re back to square one. And so it’s the it’s the complete picture, including inclusive software and apps as well. And so it’s it’s it’s a multi pronged issue that we’re trying to solve and digital equity is the goal is this giving everyone the ability to have, you know, the opportunity that the internet and connectivity can provide?

Tim Kubiak 4:41
So, so you talk about the apps, one of the things I think you had a great corporate sponsor, if I’m not mistaken. Malwarebytes and you did some research on that that came out back in September. Can you talk a little bit about that?

Sue Krautbauer 4:53
Sure. Scott, I’d like to jump in on that. So. So as we is we think about our work. And our work is, is oftentimes putting a computer into the hands of an individual that’s either not familiar, not a digital native, as we might call it, or someone who is just their skill sets, aren’t they’re not, they’re not comfortable there. And it does it absolutely, positively when you think about, you know, people who are on the wrong side of the digital divide, which we also call the technology gap. And it describes that gap between those who have access to computers and the internet knows who don’t, those are, often, as Scott said, low income communities of color, rural, isolated individuals, older adults, the vulnerable, then they sit on the wrong side of this divide. So so we provide a computer for them and open up this, this amazing world, amazing world of connectivity. And think about it from your own perspective. If someone took your computer away, and you couldn’t you couldn’t access the internet on a daily basis what that impact would be for you. But we also put these poke folks in in the possibility of yet a more vulnerable position because they’re not familiar, they don’t know how to keep themselves safe, necessarily. So one of our corporate sponsors Malwarebytes. And we paired up with them their their leading cybersecurity malware by malware protection software company. And we said, what happens when they get on? Are they? Are they targeted more frequently? Do they? Do they get scammed more often? And what is the rate of fraud? What is the rate of victimization within folks who are in our, in the new the new digital, the new digital arena. So we, we had some key findings that I think would be really interesting. 31% of people do not feel safe online, they don’t feel private, online, globally. And this was done not only in the US, but also in the US in the in the United Kingdom, and also in Germany. So it is got a global flavor to it. 53% of women do feel the least private, there are 53% of women, compared to 40% of men feel least private online. And globally, that was 35% of women versus 27% of men. And interestingly enough, when you when when for those of us who are very comfortable in the tech space now, you know, you put on an anti malware, you know, you know, cybersecurity type, you know, infrastructure either on your computer, or you know, your network, etc. 79% of the 5000 people that were interviewed in in that in our target market did not have any familiarity at all with antivirus products. So, I mean, there’s more stats to come on that and and I can share more as we go along. But it was just startling. And for us, it felt important to know that once we opened the door to the to this massive world of digital opportunity, what else what what other responsibilities might we have for that. So we’ve also partnered with Malwarebytes, to provide to our constituents on computers that are sent, sent to them to be able to have the Malwarebytes software product, the full Malwarebytes software product loaded for free on on computers that didja tunity and our digital Opportunity Network are providing to our constituents.

Tim Kubiak 8:40
So so if I can draw some correlations here, right. So digital privacy is one thing, there’s obviously been a ton of research into banking in disadvantaged communities, right, and their lack of accounts and access. And then you talked about immigrant communities. And one of the things that I know is an issue in World Bank tracks, it is, you know, we’ll say, authoritarian governments tracking and, you know, tracing people’s currency flows inside their countries. And when you have immigrants, one of the things that often happens is culturally, they send back to the old country for lack of a better phrase, and what you’re doing here, or at least my interpretation of it, is, you’re given the ability to not only communicate safely in this environment, but potentially communicate safely back to their families that have been left behind. Is that fair?

Sue Krautbauer 9:32
Absolutely. Spot on. Absolutely. Yep.

Scott Henley 9:36
Because one of the one of the big things, one of the, you know, findings from the research that was startling to me was that of the 1000s and 1000s of people that were surveyed, not a single person, avoided suspicious online activity doesn’t matter, age, gender, income education level. Everyone is exposed to it and so whether it’s an In the immigrant population, as you said, or anyone else, it’s such a pervasive issue. And so with, through working with Malwarebytes, we’re hoping to, you know, help protect those that are new adopters, and probably the most vulnerable.

Tim Kubiak 10:15
So how can people get involved both at a personal level and at the corporate level?

Sue Krautbauer 10:21
Scott, I’ll let you, I’ll let you run with that one.

Scott Henley 10:24
Sure. Yeah, I’ll jump in the, I mean, there’s numerous ways to get involved from the end from an individual person who has an extra outer service laptop sitting on their basement shelf, that that computer has life in it. And whether it’s operable or not. Through through our work, we have an online platform that we match individual donors of tech, with nearby charities that help support people, whether veterans or older adults, or any of the populations that we’ve mentioned so far. And so we play matchmaker, and we helped facilitate the donation of that of that product. If it’s not workable, if it’s not in working condition, then we match with a nonprofit refurbisher nearby, so that that computer can be refurbished brought back to life, loaded up with current software, and so forth, and, and out into the community to help support people in need. And so that’s that’s sort of the the most granular way is that you and I can go into our basement, grab an old computer and get it out there to into the community, wherever it’s needed. And so we work with 1500 nonprofit organizations all across the country, that helps support individuals and families through technology. So that’s, that’s what Sue had mentioned before the digital Opportunity Network. Now, beyond that, within that I should say, is a group of 85, nonprofit refurbishers, that are also located all across the country. And so we support that sub network, if you want to call it that, by connecting them with corporate donations of technology. Now, corporate America today could solve the technology gap with the amount of devices that are in circulation, and the amount that are refreshed every year and taken out of service and so forth. The supply is out there. And so what we’re trying to do is change the way that companies look at technology, and to plug them in more more deeply into their communities. And so we work with a wide range of corporate clients, where they call us up and say, Hey, we’re doing a refresh in San Antonio, can you help us find a recipient organization. And so we play matchmaker there as well. And we help facilitate the corporate donation of technology to a nonprofit refurbisher. And then they’re able to, to break the machines down and get the good ones out into the community, they’re, you know, that breaks them down into parts and, and so forth. But it, we continue to work in this granular fashion, and we’re trying to build that out at scale. So we can solve this problem at an international basis. Right. And if I

Sue Krautbauer 13:09
can pick you back in here, this is my, this is, this is my tech side of me, you know, lifting its head up here for a moment, when you think about the large corporate, the large corporate donations, and, and there’s always been a little bit of a trepidation in the past on you know, if I if I send my assets, my my, my technology assets into the, into a nonprofit channel versus the normal channels that they use the for profit recyclers in the for profit itad providers and, and returning it back for trading and things like that. You know, again, we’re talking about cybersecurity, how’s my data going to be secure? What are these people do? You know, there’s this, there’s this an inaccurate picture of, you know, a couple of people in a garage, right? What I want to make sure for any of your folks that that whose corporation might be interested in doing that type of activity, our nonprofit refurbishing community, our true itad providers, so they’re providing chain of control data wipe for NIST and DOD standards, they can provide certificates of destruction. And we have an entire hand holding costs here, service that we provide to those corporate donors, so that they can be sure that their assets are going correctly, they get the right reporting. And we work from financial institutions that have Sarbanes Oxley to you know, hospitals that have HIPAA regulations and such. So, just wanted to throw that out there from my side of the technology that that not only is not only are you getting return on your investment return on your asset, but what we like to call also the corporation is getting return on community. They’re putting this into their own communities to help folks upskill and learn new skills and become better workers etc. So, but but that’s always a concern in the back of mind most of the corporate entities that we talk with,

Tim Kubiak 15:06
so let’s go on that corporate entities, when you hear this, if I’m a large financial institution, great, I can make a giant difference, right? But my assumption is, is that the individual business owner with 10, or 20, or 40, employees in the city, that’s refreshing their infrastructure can also make a difference, right? They’re a good candidate, the

Scott Henley 15:30
100%, and we’re missing, we haven’t mentioned the website, so companies can go to a couple different websites, donate technology, Comm, it’s super easy to remember, and donate technology comm you can go there and fill out a simple form, and that that that will, you know, put us in touch with you. Or if you go to didja, which is our main site, there’s a lot of information there, that walks you through how to do a donation of that kind, and what the process looks like.

Tim Kubiak 16:02
And you partner with channel partners, MSPs, people like that, if they were interested in as part of their own refresh cycles, and they reach out and become sort of a programmatic element for you.

Sue Krautbauer 16:12
Absolutely, absolutely. And if I might digress just a little bit on that, you know, a managed services provider, small, medium business, you know, mid level to large corporate, we, we really, you know, as Scott had said, even an individual who has a computer, you know, that’s retired in their own basement, one computer, 10, computers, 20, computers, 2000, computers, all of those can, can be moved through our process. And and there’s some, there’s some benefit to that small, medium business MSP that you’re talking about here as well, not only the large corporations that have formal corporate social responsibility, programs, and people and staff, but to the small medium business, here’s a great opportunity to, to come to didja tunity, who can connect them with nonprofits in their local communities that not only need technology, but there’s also opportunities for employee engagement, and volunteering, and, you know, corporate support in terms of, you know, we’ve had local, you know, device drives, where we partner, both, you know, a local nonprofit or two that we have in a city, and a managed services provider, who then sends it out to all their, you know, their community and their customers, and do it, you know, do a device drive, there’s lots of ways to get involved on multiple levels that, that, as we all know, corporate engagement is good for retention and recruitment. And, and, you know, people like to be able to help and be involved in their community. So lots of ways to get involved.

Scott Henley 17:48
And one last way, if you don’t mind, we haven’t mentioned, of course, you can help to support this cause and this work by making a financial contribution as well, whether you’re an individual, or if you have ties to a foundation, or what have you, or even through corporate support, we have a number of corporate partners to help fund this work. And so we’re always wide open to that, and so grateful for that type, that type of giving.

Tim Kubiak 18:12
And you have intensity to your project coming up. Can you talk a little bit about that?

Scott Henley 18:17
Yeah, this is really exciting for us. We we are just at the beginning of rolling out this new project that’s presented with support from at&t. And at&t is rolling out a new initiative called connected learning. And they’re supporting a number of different projects across the country, including ours, which is taking us into 10 different cities, from coast to coast. And the cities haven’t been announced yet. But that’s coming out soon. And what what we’re doing with this project is one of the things that we’ve learned through our work over these many months and years, is that there’s a lack of coordination of resources in cities. And it’s a pretty pervasive problem. silos, people working in silos, doing the same thing, multiple organizations in one city that don’t even know each other and don’t communicate. And you can, you know, the same can be said, for for government agencies, for nonprofits and so forth. So what we’re trying to do here is not only deliver computers, of course, and it’s focused on the homework gap, so that means K through 12 students and their families. The devices are just one component of it. The real driver of this project is to work together with communities to build lasting systems so that we plug in local business we get on the radar of local philanthropy. We pull together all the organizations that are already doing work in this space. There may already be a local coalition who’s trying to do this work to and through our nonprofit network and our refurbishers that are part of our network as well. We’re trying to put the pieces together so that we build a lasting system so that any family that needs a computer knows where to get it, there’s robust supply, and there’s an easy pathway for them to get those devices. And so we’ll be rolling that out in 10 different cities, as you said, it’s a two year pilot project. And the goal is to build something replicable that we can bring to any community anywhere.

Tim Kubiak 20:37
In kind of bringing this to close, I know that you have a new film coming out, right? You’ve put a lot of effort into it. Right? In literally the week before this episode goes live, that film comes out. So can you talk a little bit about what people can go learn there and where to find it?

Sue Krautbauer 20:54
Sure. So we are in for in post production, putting it together for for a film that we’re calling the voices of digital inclusion. And it’s not, it’s not about digital unity. And we had some great sponsors as well. But it’s not about the sponsors. What we’ve done is we have gone across the country, and done live interviews of the nonprofit practitioners, governmental agencies, for profit, you know, organizations and companies, etc, that are doing the work that are actually working in digital inclusion working with the end users. And not only have we asked them to tell us both, what are the wins that they’re having? What are the challenges that they are having on the frontlines. But we’re also we also have some stories of people who are going to tell us how that computer changed their lives. And that is in conjunction with a much larger conference that is coming up. And that is the national conversation on the digital divide that’s in partnership with one of our one of our alliance partners, which is connecting connected nation. And we’re very excited about that, because it’s, it’s really more about helping people be aware of, of the digital divide in a new and different way and seeing it not from a corporate, you know, kind of a, you know, a splashy video, but really seeing how that’s impacting people in their own neighborhoods, and, you know, just down the street, very excited about it. Looking forward

Tim Kubiak 22:37
to seeing it myself. So any closing thoughts, anything that I missed that we shouldn’t head on?

Scott Henley 22:45
Well, I’ll just say thank you so much for this opportunity. And if there are any tech leaders in your listenership who are hearing this for the first time and wondering how they how they can get involved, digital is a website digital tunity to match up with digital and opportunity. So digit or donate technology comm is an easy way to drop us a note and we can get in touch and see how we can plug you into this work.

Sue Krautbauer 23:11
Right. And and for me my parting comment and again, thank you very much for the opportunity here to talk about something that is pervasive in our world but but not necessarily in everyone’s radar. And if our if our mission has resonated with you as an individual, you as a as a corporation, I would invite you to give us a call and we’ll tell you a little bit more about not only our own work, which is really an umbrella or to use to use a tech technology we’re you know, we’re its channel, our channel organizations. Those are our nonprofits, we’d love to tell you about the work they’re doing as well and and how we at digit tunity don’t talk about return on investment or return on asset we talk about return on community.

Tim Kubiak 23:58
Beautiful, thank you so much for being here today.

Scott Henley 24:02
Thank you, Tim. Appreciate it.

Alternative to OEM Maintenance

In this episode, Tim Kubiak and a friend of the show Harry Brelsford from SMB Nation discuss a new project they have been working on A Community and ecosystem dedicated to helping resellers and end-users of IT products and services lower their maintenance bills by 20 to 80% without compromising quality or response times.


Introducing Alternative to OEM Maintenance (Transcript)

Tim Kubiak 0:03
Hi everybody, you notice a different logo Aom dot world and back on we are going to be talking about a number of things today. Some of them relate directly to the IT channel world and how partners can make money and end users can save money. And that’s part of what ALM world, does you are listening and watching bow ties in business. I’m your host Tim Kubiak. And thanks for being here.

Once again, everybody, we’re going to talk about a number of things, community-building channels, influencers, and all of it tied to it asset consumption lifecycle extension and a greater community that actually I’m part of building. So. With that said, I’d like to welcome my friend Harry Brelsford back to the show from SMB Nation. He’s going to kind of keep me honest in this and he’s been a great sounding board resource for me as we’ve developed AOM world. So this episode of bow ties in business, stay tuned, and learn how to make more money or extend the asset life. Harry, thanks for being here. Can you just give everybody a quick bio and refresh on who you are and everything you do?

Harry Brelsford 1:04
Sure, well, a pleasure to be here. Probably, Tim, I’m best known for SMB Nation, a community that is 22 years old, predicated upon right up here in Microsoft Small Business Server. We were excited, we were enthusiastic until Microsoft and have liked it in 2014. To encourage people to go to the 365 community office 365 And Microsoft 365. So since then, Tim, an SMB Nation still alive and kicking, but I’ve been involved in a number of startups from analytics to some cutting-edge verticals. And now, lifecycle management, technology, lifecycle management and asset management.

Tim Kubiak 1:50
So for people that are listening, that aren’t from the IT world, or frankly, have never thought about asset management, because a lot of listeners are channel partners and owners and sellers, why do they care?

Harry Brelsford 2:02
Well, over a trade group called Ira Tam, the leader says Dr. Barber, a friend of mine, and she says it best that if you’re not managing your IT assets, you’re not managing your business. And, you know, I’ve come to really learn that some sometimes as an entrepreneur, and we’ll come to a finder going out and hunting and gathering it business. We kind of forget about the minder role, right? And that’s not for everybody. And I’ve had to evolve into a minder mindset, you’ve got to manage both your business and your IT assets? Are they trust me, they will manage you? And that’s why you should care about it. Asset Management. And it’s it’s a big, big field of study, there’s no question about it.

Tim Kubiak 2:49
And so there’s a new term, it’s coming out, right, and it’s total lifecycle management and it kind of builds on that foundation. And my take on that is actually hardware OEMs love them or hate them, right? feed off of them or feed on them directly, are predicated on selling you new equipment, selling you new licenses every three years, five years, seven years, right? Anything they can do to compress the refresh cycle. IT Asset Management actually is sort of the inverse of that. Write it total lifecycle management is stretching, the value of something you’ve had cap axon. Additional years now what you do as a corporation can change with that. And we’ll talk a lot more about that actually on Aom world. But just to put that thought out there. So if you’re a channel partner, and you’ve been living and dying on Refresh, and now you have the recurring revenue model of people moving to the cloud, total lifecycle management is actually a way to increase your margins, right? While saving your customers money.

Harry Brelsford 3:50
Yeah, it’s it’s consistent with the podcast I was on yesterday about automation and scaleability. And quite frankly, for a managed services provider of a channel partner better known as MSP. It’s all about, you know, saving time and money, right. That’s the new business model. And so if you can extend the life of the asset, you’re doing right by the customer, to save the money and ultimately time and doing the refresh. And that’s the way the world works right now. Right? The idea of AI let me do a little storytelling. My great aunt down in Texas, and God bless her. She came from an old school, small oil family, but she go down every year and buy a brand new Cadillac that was her thing.

Tim Kubiak 4:40
Not a bad thing to have. Not a bad old school.

Harry Brelsford 4:43
And again, God bless her. But today, Tim, what do you see on robocalls and TV, you see these ads for extended warranties for your car, which is exactly the opposite. And that’s the way a lot of people think does that make sense?

Tim Kubiak 4:58
Yeah, it does. And as a guy just sold a 2006 Honda this past spring. I’m your worst nightmare if you sell new cars.

Harry Brelsford 5:07
Yeah, yeah. And that’s a whole nother podcast about the used car market.

Tim Kubiak 5:13
So am worlds a community? That’s part of what I brought you on to talk about because you built a number of very successful communities? What’s your thoughts on why this one matters? And where it’s a different kind of where it fits?

Harry Brelsford 5:26
Well, a couple of things. So first of all, we really now think in terms of that being an ecosystem in Alinea laid that out, back in the 90s. And the 2000s, there were things called user groups, right for Novell NetWare. And you’d go and there’d be three to 400 members on the third Thursday night. And then that changed to online communities, right. And now I think what we’re doing with the AOM world, it’s fair to call it a community. But I think it’s also an ecosystem where we have these interconnections between different communities, stakeholders and constituents, right, so we’re thinking a little bit bigger than just the old Thursday night user group and trying to add more value. So EO, EO M world is an ecosystem to, you know, do a couple of things. One is to share best practices and asset management, licensing, and so on. Number two, educate the members of the Aom world on trends and opportunities. Number three would be a cool tool. So we have a free cool tool that actually helps with asset management and provisioning, the consumption of third party maintenance, extended warranties very quickly, in a very rapid manner for quoting, right, that was always one of the drawbacks, in that world to apply an extended warranty was too long to get the quotes. Remember, we talked about automation and scalability, right, so we play really well into some of those conversations. And that’s kind of it the baseline,

Tim Kubiak 7:12
okay. And we teased in the opening about influencers, and everybody or at least my mind goes to Instagram and traditional social media, but influencers actually play a huge role inside of the tech community, especially from a technical resource and an engineering perspective. Thoughts on, you know, how they’ll benefit from this ecosystem in this community?

Harry Brelsford 7:35
Well, I think it goes two ways. One is an influencer, you know, they they need a, they, they need a congregation to preach this right. analogy, that’s what makes them an influencer. So you know, these people tend to be lifelong learners. They read in the morning and they, you know, have the automatic download podcast and Spotify while they’re driving their car, that kind of thing. In so Aom world, I think will contribute to their, their knowledge base, quite frankly. And then vice versa. influencers in the asset management area, can then have a congregation a flock, that can benefit from their knowledge, right, that it’s the one who speaks to many. And so we’re certainly going to play that. And that’s reflected in some of the launch partners that we have at Aom world, handpick people who are successful, you know, both on the technical side and the business side.

Tim Kubiak 8:34
So you talk about the launch, when the day this comes out, we’re actually at cyber fit the Acronis event in Miami, Florida, we’ll be doing some live stuff from down there. But talk about that matchmaker thing, because we’ve been pretty selective and much with your guidance of who we want to include in these first stages before we open the doors to make sure we got it right.

Harry Brelsford 8:55
Yeah, well, you know, let me let me give you some perspective from the old my time is on Microsoft vendor. Microsoft has tried, you know, these things go in cycles. About every few years, Microsoft tries to have a partner Connect site, right, where customers can come to Microsoft and connect with a partner in the partners get all frothy that they’re going to get this influx of leads, and they just haven’t been able to pull it off. It’s hard to scale matchmaking in do it, right. And then Tim, to be honest, about every time we thought we were getting close, Microsoft legal would step in and squash it because they’re worried about the liability, right? Like, what if the partner knocks over a statue in someone’s home office and we connected them. So we’re not going down that road? We’re gonna be a lot more selective and be thinking about, you know, I guess I’d say authenticity that there’s customers that want to be presented with some IT service providers who know what they’re doing. And we can help facilitate that. Now, it’s not going to scale to the Microsoft size, right? I don’t want it to, I think we want to have more of a, you know, quite frankly, more, it would resemble more of a monthly meetup group where you just get together and you do business the old fashioned way, right by referral reference, talking it out, handshake, followed by a contract. That’s where I see a starting, I may come, you know, asked me in five years when we scale this thing globally, but initially, I really think we need to keep an eye on quality and authenticity. And essentially, it’s, it’s almost like stacking and ranking partners by their expertise and quality, you know, not quite that formal.

Tim Kubiak 10:48
So So one of the things that we’ve put a lot of design time into in creating this is we actually recognize the different types of partners have different needs, right? So when you say quality, often people think size of a partner. And we all know that there’s the usual suspects, whether it’s 12, or 50, in the IT ecosystem, that everybody when you say that, thanks to those companies, they’re great companies, by the way, I do business with most of them, right. But it’s also we found a way to be inclusive, if you will, of the regional partner and the burgeoning MSP. And frankly, to Joe’s in a trucker friend, the shed is my friend Simon Says, right? That Ronnie good healthy business, maybe in an NFL city, or maybe even a secondary or tertiary market, in eon worlds a place for them, you know, and is geared, intended to be geared towards them getting what they need. Is that

Harry Brelsford 11:42
fair? Yeah, it is. And so we welcome everybody, however, the big dawgs are already in this space and established and, you know, we want them to participate in the community. But Aom world was really designed at the core to also invite the small and medium business managed services provider, because Tim, quite frankly, they don’t have a home right now. And they do have domain expertise and asset management, infrastructure and so on. And there’s a real opportunity. So there’s that. And then the other thing would be would be our that our level of trust in and here’s what I mean, with the Aom world business model. We’re not facilitating the third party maintenance of consumption providers to speak directly with the customer rather go through an EO M world partner via distribution. Because when it comes time for renewal, we don’t want to have the unfortunate incident where the original underwriter maybe for lack of a better word, sends out a postcard or makes a phone call to the customer. And quite frankly, cuts the the MSP partner out of the renewals. So that’s also a real pillar of our communities.

Tim Kubiak 13:03
Yeah, and it’s foundational for what CPI does. And for those of you that don’t know is oppo Productions, Inc. I am the CEO of at this point, and we run for brands that go exclusively through distribution, we don’t sell directly to end users were 100% channel focus. And ALM world was sort of an offshoot of that. branding for people, frankly, to have consolidated resources. So just so everyone knows, no, no sleight of hand here. Um, with that, Carrie, what am I missing? We’ve got some things on the website, we have four or five key areas. Can we just talk about those to close things out?

Harry Brelsford 13:39
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So you know, in a community and community building now, ecosystem building, you know, you have to have a reasons for being right. And I alluded to that earlier with the Small Business Server SKU over my shoulder. And when you have a reason for being you have a an ecosystem and a community. So for us, it’s initially going to be education, right, that, that we’re putting up a lot of resources to educate, primarily, are more often than not the SMB MSP on what the opportunity is, then that will scale out to meet meetups and attending events. And who knows, maybe we’ll host an event someday to help people, you know, go up the partner maturity continuum, right. That’s, that’s really where it’s at right now, as he can’t just rest on your laurels. And, you know, it’s changing too quick, not only on the technical side, but the business model side. But Tim, the one thing we might be missing is the counter slipped Well, cyclical side with the pandemic economy. Here’s what our research showed, and it’s backed up by Spiceworks and a new report from IDC and basically the spin shift over the past couple years when From the infrastructure hardware, the servers the the internal private clouds, etc. Over the laptops. Okay. And so there was no cash and these are some businesses that also went to revenue. I can’t be generous and say neutral but really revenue is zero.

Tim Kubiak 15:18
Cleveland research prior to the pandemic was projecting for 20 29% decline in desktop and laptop and everybody in that world thought that was okay.

Harry Brelsford 15:30
Yeah, yeah. And and so the spin shift means that the EO, one world opportunity is to understand how to extend the life of the infrastructure assets for a fraction of the cost of replacing it as these companies rebuild their IT budgets, you know, and there will of course, be a hardware, refresh it, you know, time period five, but the opportunity is now.

Tim Kubiak 15:56
Great. Harry is always thanks for being here. For anyone that wants to find Harry beyond the OCONUS cyber fit event where we’re at as you’re catching this, if you’re catching it close to when it comes out. You can find him in SMB Nation links are in the show notes. And you can also find them on LinkedIn and I will link to his profile that Harry is always thanks so much for being here. Thank you

Communicate Your Why

Businesses of all sizes struggle with communication.   Ben Baker shares how in as little as 4 hours he helps businesses of every size get an entire year’s worth of social media content. 

Learn more at

Want to hear more of Ben? Then check out his first appearance on the show “Leadership Beyond the Crisis”

Transcript from Communicate Your Why

Tim Kubiak 0:03
Businesses constantly have to reinvent how they market, how they find customers, and who their customers are. We’d like to welcome Ben Baker back to the show. We’re going to talk about communicate your why today. And what we’re really going to cover. Here’s some of what Ben’s offering in a new service to help people get a year’s worth of content out of a minimal amount of time. Ben, welcome back. So good to talk to you again.

Ben Baker 0:36
Hey, Tim, we had such a good time, the first time I am. So looking forward to that. Thanks for having me back on the show.

Tim Kubiak 0:42
Yeah, anytime. And literally, for the listeners, Ben and I talk every month. He’s one of the few people I take the time to do that with. So I know you’re going to get a ton out of it today.

Ben Baker 0:51
No, that’s, that’s gracious to you. We have a lot of fun. And you know, there’s this, there’s so much good stuff going on right now in terms of communication. And, you know, it’s, I’m excited to talk about it.

Tim Kubiak 1:02
Yeah. So what you’ve done to me is pretty innovative, right? are a little bit of content and a bit of an investment, you can literally deliver a year’s worth of content to small business. So, you know, I know, one of the things I personally fight through is marketing conversations all the time. And, you know, when you start talking to me about this, I’m like, wow, this makes way too much sense. And that’s, you know, frankly, why we’re having you on again. So do you mind talking a little bit about what you’ve built, who it’s designed to help and how it works?

Ben Baker 1:30
Exactly. Yeah, this came to me as an epiphany a few months ago, I’ve been in the podcasting game for 10 years now. And communication for about 25. And it’s always been about helping people tell their stories. And what I came to the realization was I came across a stat that said in 2018, there was half a million podcasts. In 2021, there was 2.5 million, and it’s climbing beyond that. But the problem is 90% of those podcasts fail in 10 episodes or less. So what that’s telling us is that people love podcasts, they like to cache the podcast, they like being on a podcast. They like the results of the podcast, but they don’t want to do the work. Because it’s a lot of work. The day to day, week to week, month to month, year to year of figuring out okay, who am I going to talk to? What are we going to talk about all the editing that goes on the promotion, and a million other things that go on with being on a podcast? So I said, How can we make this easier for people? How can we sit there and say, Okay, give me four hours of your time. And I’ll give you the social content you need for a year. And we looked at it, we said, okay, how can we hit the easy button, let’s sit there and sit there go, what do people want, they want to be interviewed. They want the podcast episode that they can share. They want the they want the transcript of the product podcast so that they have all the information that goes along with it. They want the images, they want the cachet of being on the show, so they can put it on their website or share through social media, etc. But they also want to have shareable content that they can give to their team members, to their employees, to their clients, to their prospects to their vendors, to be able to share across social media, websites, email, etc. on an ongoing basis. So that’s what we’ve created, we’ve created things where we’ve got a team of professional podcasters, each one of them is going to have their own podcasts, maybe one on real estate, one for travel, another one for insurance, another one for mortgage brokers, etc. And each one is going to be able to have people within that industry that can come on the show one time a year, four times a year, 12 times a year, tell their story, and gain the material that they want to be able to tell that story ongoing deal when you’re sleeping, and your customers aren’t.

Tim Kubiak 4:05
So I’m going to do some awesome camondo here, what I did with my own show is I went from it being essentially produced in house, do I just kind of jobbed it out. And for anyone who hasn’t ever experienced that, yeah, you can get some very bargain rates. But odds are, the quality of what you do is going to suffer and I personally experienced that. And the late spring, early summer timeframe as I jot down a bunch of stuff. And I literally stepped back and had to retake control. And you you’ve built essentially a machine that you can drop it into that’s run by professionals, right.

Ben Baker 4:43
Oh, exactly. I mean, I my show the your living brand art live show is in its fifth year. We’ve got 270 episodes and over half of those episodes have been produced by my current partners. They’ve got a team of 10 people in California, and 55 people in the Philippines and all these people do is the backend work for me. And they’ve done it week after week, month after month, year after year. And it’s not just me they do it for they do it for 100 or 200. Other podcasters. So therefore, I have seen consistent, great quality work, come out of these people time and time again, and they’ve got the processes that go along with it. So therefore, as I expand, create different podcasts, be able to do that we know that we can maintain that quality, because what they’re doing is they’re bringing new people into a process. And they’ve they’ve got the systems already set up to make sure that everything is consistent. Everything is right. And if it’s not right, they fix it. And that’s that’s what I love about that.

Tim Kubiak 5:50
So if people haven’t done a podcast, they probably don’t know how many moving pieces, right? It’s not just you hit record, and it all happens. About I’ll say 30 things that need to happen. Episode to go live, right? Yeah. So you have to find the guest. You have to have the recording medium, you have to have the editing talent, right. But in that that maybe seems obvious. And yeah, there’s a zillion guides out there. But what people don’t see, and part of what I think you’re delivering here that’s unique is the social media content, the publication schedule around that. I’m assuming that everything’s going into the feeds, and his SEO and all that sort of thing. What else am I missing? It’s obvious, it’s a time suck that beginners aren’t getting to see coming.

Ben Baker 6:37
Yeah, it’s it’s also doing it in a consistent basis. A lot of people sit there and say, Okay, well, I’m going to get these people to do this part of the ratio, I’m going to do these people do this part of the show these people do these by the show. There’s no accountability. Yeah, you know, and all of a sudden things, the handshake doesn’t happen properly, what handshakes don’t happen properly, that’s when things get missed. And when you when you sit there and say, Okay, we’re going to build an end to end system that sits there go, okay, the guest shows up on day one. And on day 30. Not only is there an edited podcast, not only is there edited transcription, not only are there’s 25 pieces of edited social media, both both in audio format and video format, there’s a show page, there’s an there’s a social media campaign that goes along with it, plus all the shareable content that you get to put on your own thing. But there’s also the ability to make sure that everything is done consistently, and it’s on brand. And that’s that’s where the that’s where the magic happens. And that’s taken a long time for me to be able to figure out. And it’s been a long time for me to be able to, you know, work with people that I know that are going to be able to take care of me and bring podcasters on board that have hundreds, if not 1000s of episodes between them, that I know when they’re out there asking the right questions, you know, the right answers are gonna be given and they give my guests the ability to shine. And that’s what it’s all about. It’s not about, you know, it’s not about the podcaster, the show’s not about the podcaster. It’s not about me showing how smart I am. It’s about my podcasters, enabling you to show how smart you are, and, and being able to add value to your audience and tell the right stories that are going to resonate with your audience. So they’re not only going to listen, they’re going to understand the value to them. And they’re also going to recall and retell them.

Tim Kubiak 8:35
And I love that you’re why in the name, right? Because that’s a point that so often missed. Right? companies don’t talk about what they do. And all too often, I watched people market using terms that their customers don’t use, write their internal speak, and then they kind of, you know, glaze over. When Nope, well, nobody gets this fault. That’s not how they talk about it. You know, you’re calling it an orange, and they call it an apple kind of situation. So how do you avoid that in some of what you’re delivering here? How do you help them get their own the correct message out for who they are? You know, the

Ben Baker 9:18
big thing I asked my clients are what are the questions that your clients are asking you to solve? Your what are the things that they ask you about weekend and week out? Let’s talk about those. And how you solve that problem. It’s, it’s about not only me not speaking in my language, but my clients, my guests not speaking their language as well. It’s taking the technical out of it. And being able to put the the conversation in a point where it’s going to be relevant to the to the end audience so it’s a matter of my podcasters in me, understanding who they are the end people who are the people that are going to be listening to this who are Who are your clients? Who are your vendors? Who are the people that you want to resonate with? What do they do? Why did they do it, and be able to create a podcast that is going to speak to those people, instead of enabling, you know, the person who’s being interviewed to just go into jargon dumb, because as soon as we get into jargon, as soon as we start getting into acronyms, as soon as we started getting into insider baseball, you’ll lose the end audience. And the first thing you want to do is avoid losing losing that end audience.

Tim Kubiak 10:33
I’ve got to ask, and it landed in my inbox today, Amazon’s becoming more and more of a force in the podcast listener ship world. Yeah. Can we just kind of segue into what you think that impact is on just overall podcast world and listenership?

Ben Baker 10:49
Yeah, I think that there’s good things that come out of there’s good things and bad things with every new player coming into the into the marketplace. The big thing that I’ve seen, that’s the negative is that there’s technology that’s coming on board that’s allowing people to sit there and type in their podcast, run it through voice recognition software, having some some is some bots read their podcast, and that they’re calling that a podcast. And that’s not a podcast, a podcast is that back and forth understanding is that communication, it’s that humanistic, yo, part of the point, that visceral engagement between you and your audience, that’s what a podcast is. So, you know, that’s where I’m fighting against bringing your Amazon into the into the mix. I mean, my podcast is now on Amazon, it’s now on his mind. Yeah, and another 50 platforms on top of that, but what it’s doing is it’s opening yourself up to different audiences. And I think that there’s nothing wrong with it, there’s people that will listen to it on Amazon, that will never listen to it on Apple play, people that will listen on Spotify, that will never listen on iheart. And, you know, and all over the place. So the more good players there are out there, promoting the industry in their own way. That’s a good thing. Now, you know, some of them are gonna end up being paid to play and I get that, yeah, you know, some of them are there, they’ve got to have a revenue model, all of a sudden, you’re going to have commercials that are going to be playing in the middle of it that are not yours, that you may or may not see some revenue sharing or not, I mean, look at YouTube. But you know, that’s part of the growing pains of the industry. The trick is, people are going to sit there and say, if the ads aren’t relevant, and if they’re not, you know, if they don’t do that, then all of a sudden, your listenership is going to go down. But here’s a trick of the thing. You don’t need 100,000 people listen to your podcast, you need 5000 great listeners that listen to it, and are excited about it, and promote it, and you’ll engage with it. And that’s too many people are out there thinking, Oh, my God, I need to have 100,000 1,000,005 million 10 million listeners out there to be relevant. If you’ve got the right 500 people listening to your podcast, you can be a very big success.

Tim Kubiak 13:16
Yeah. And I’ll actually kind of build on that. Right my own experiences. The promotion around my podcast has driven more client engagements for me in the sales coaching business than actual listenership? Absolutely. Right? Yeah.

Ben Baker 13:34
Yeah. I mean, there, there are people out there. What people don’t understand that podcast is it’s not the any one particular episode. It’s the it’s the catalogue. Because if somebody is interested in your podcast, if I sit there and listen to your podcast, I go, Oh, that’s interesting. I’ll listen to 10 or 15 or 20 episodes, in the back catalogue to sit there and get a much bigger feel of who you are, what you do, why you do it, why should like you? Why should trust you? And once I’ve done that, then I’m going to give you a call probably isn’t there. So you know what? I’ve been listening your podcast for six months now. I really like what you’re doing. I like the thought process behind it. I’ve got this problem. I know that you can probably fix this. Can we have a conversation? And that’s what it is, is that long tail marketing. And that’s what most podcasters don’t get. Everybody’s looking for the quick hit the quick fix the quick sale. That’s not what podcasting is about. It’s about that long tail marketing, brand building and building trust.

Tim Kubiak 14:34
Yeah, and to go back to your 100,000 million, 5 million listeners and episodes. That’s an entirely different revenue model for a podcaster Absolutely. Then what people who run successful podcasts and build a business on do that’s a broadcast business in and of itself.

Ben Baker 14:53
Yeah, I mean, I’m not in the same business as Joe Rogan’s. I’m not I’m not you know, I never will be If you take a look at a lot of these, you know, enormous piles and understand of all the podcasts out there, we’re talking a fraction of 1% that probably do 100,000 downloads, no, nevermind a million, there’s a fraction of 1% that probably do 100,000 downloads on a regular basis. So they are in a completely different wheelhouse a completely different market. And their model and their marketing and their objectives and their goals are completely different. The majority of podcasts are out there to sit there and say this is the audience that I want to speak to. This is why I want to speak to them. This is why they care. And this is what I want them to do once they’ve listened to this podcast. And it’s a mostly it’s about getting them to share the information with other people, because they may not be people that can take action. But they don’t don’t don’t it’s no somebody that probably can.

Tim Kubiak 15:57
Yeah, you know that you’ve brought up something that was interesting to me a while back Spotify, in some of the bigger name podcasts or public figure podcasts had to tweak this snippet piece, right. Like in written media for the past few years. How does that play into the average podcaster strategy?

Ben Baker 16:23
In terms in terms of what they’re just

Tim Kubiak 16:26
so I’ll pick on the first place I saw it was actually when Michelle Obama watch, right, right. You couldn’t take a deep breath without getting an ad for her no matter what platform you want. No judgement, by the way. But she was the first one I saw that they had tweet this line, tweet this quote, link this in. And it was all to drive listeners back to the podcast or it or active engagement. But it was user to your point it was user generated. It wasn’t her media team doing it. Right. They, you know, however, they built that. But it’s fascinating for me to watch people engaging if I’m watching or listening, and I listened primarily on Spotify. I’m an Android guy. You know, other people have started to copy that. And so now you see people saying tweet this snippet, tweet this episode that natively in the app essentially,

Ben Baker 17:17
right? Yeah. And it’s interesting, because I have the tweet to feature within the podcast episodes on my website. Yeah. And they’re native. And if you click on them, also, and you’re right, because what that does, is that increases leader listenership, because if I’ve got 1000 people that each yo click on one of those tweets, well, all of a sudden, each one of those people have 1000 people on their Twitter list. Also, there’s a million people that have seen that episode, or at least potentially seen that episode. Yeah. You know, let’s, let’s be realistic and say maybe 5% of people actually do, you’ll look at it and might might engage with it. But still 5% of a million is still the old 5000 new people that are looking at it. So there’s there’s real value in in that is that what you’re doing is you’re creating shareable content, and you’re giving impetus for people to share the information. And I think that that is something that every single podcast, whether you’re, you’re Michelle Obama, whether you’re a Ben Baker, whether you’re attempting we are whoever should be looking at it, because the more opportunities we can give our audience to share our content, the easier we can make it for them to do that, the more they will. And you know, they mean 100% of the people never will share it, you know, but if 10% of the people who listen to it, share it, you know, all of a sudden, you’re gaining audience and you’re gaining potential people that are not only potential listeners, but could be potential clients. And that’s that’s how a podcast grows. It’s through enabling your audience, to be excited about it, to feel that they’re part of the process, and giving them the ability to build on that and move it forward.

Tim Kubiak 19:07
So if I’m out there listening, and it happened across this conversation, and I run a business to say serves greater Detroit area, pick a city pick a metro Yeah, great, how does, how do I get started? And how do I know if this is even begins to be a fit for me and what I do?

Ben Baker 19:25
Yeah, I mean, I know people that have geographic based podcasts, you know, they sit there say, Okay, I live in x city, you know, I am a small business, I am a $250,000 $150,000. Business, okay. And I want to be known as a bigger player within my industry. Well, the trick is to sit there and say, Okay, what are the people that you can influence within that business community care about? And the other people I know it Have you business leaders within that community, that’s what they do. It’s all about talking to business leaders or talking to businesses within that community, to be able to give them the opportunity to share their knowledge about what’s going on in a local geographic location. And then be able to do that. And then you create SEO, that’s, that’s, that is, you know, geographically located, to be able to do that. Now, the trick is, is two things. One, those people that become guests on your podcast, potentially can become clients. If you nurture the relationship, if you build it out, if you’re patient with it, if you have something that’s a value to these people, because you’re giving them something that’s valuable, then they can potentially become customers. But on the other hand, they’re also going to sit there and say, Lisa, I was just on this podcast. And they did such a good job with this podcast, they made it so easy, they gave me all this information that’s shareable, they made it easy for me to be able to look like a hero, well, I want to put this on my website, I want to put this out on my social media, I want to put this out on email campaigns, and then allow you to do that. And then all of a sudden, you become well known within that geographic location. And, you know, in that’s, that’s, that’s a really powerful thing that if you can walk down the street, and say, Oh, yeah, there’s such and such podcast, oh, you’re the podcast guy, or whatever, or, or I heard you speak on that podcast, that was great. All of a sudden, people also tell and retell that story, you know, because then then it becomes a local phenomenon. And a local phenomena is a powerful thing to be, you know, my clients, my guests are from around the world, you know, so I have a much larger geographic location that I’m, that I’m talking to people on. However, there still is that cache. And it’s that cache, it’s, it’s, nobody cares that you were actually on a podcast. They truly don’t. Nobody cares into our podcast, they care about what you said, and how you made them feel, and what they learned by listening to you. That’s what’s important, not the fact that you were on a podcast, nobody cares. You know, that’s, that’s your two minutes of fame. You don’t even get your five minutes of fame on that when you get to two minutes of fame. But where the value is, is how did you change the lives or affect the lives or affect the the thought process of the people that were listening to the podcast? And that’s, that’s how the thing expands and becomes bigger and better? Yeah,

Tim Kubiak 22:33
yeah. It’s one of the things if you think about it, it’s really just an extension of what we’ve heard am radio in the states and Saturday morning television on the local news broadcast. Right. so and so’s Tree Service. Yeah. Does the hour long, you know, call in show. But when I needed my tree trim, that’s what I remembered.

Ben Baker 22:57
That’s right. And most people don’t. And most people realize that, that that person who who was on the hour long tree trimming show was paying to be on the hour long tree trimming show. They were sponsoring their own TV program. Yeah, yeah.

Tim Kubiak 23:10
Yeah, that’s exactly right. Yeah. You know, no phone book, man. I’m calling so and so because I’ve been less than 15 years I lived here. Yeah, that’s right.

Ben Baker 23:19
Yeah. So it’s all about know, like, and trust. That that’s, that’s what podcasts do for you. podcasts allow you while you’re asleep, while you’re doing something else, while you’re busy with another client, for potential clients to get to know you better? Because 70% of people’s buying decision is made before they even walk into your door or pick up a phone and call you.

Tim Kubiak 23:43
Yeah. So let’s debunk the scary term SEO a little bit. Right. So if I’m listening, and I’m not in the business, I’m out there thinking, Man SEO, that’s where I spend money, didn’t pay somebody a fortune to tell me what words to use and how often to use? And that’s not really what it is anymore, right?

Ben Baker 24:06
No, I mean, what SEO does the search engine optimization? Alright, let’s let’s call it what it is. It’s search engine optimization. It’s what are the keywords that people are searching for? When they’re looking when they have a problem that they need solved? Yeah, I asked my clients on a regular basis, when you’re describing me to others, what phrases D use, how do you describe me to others? And those are the words that I use on SEO. It’s not how I describe myself. It’s how do people who deal with me that want to do business with me that are searching for me on the internet? What are the keyword terms that they’re using to be able to find me? And that’s what SEO truly is. It’s, it’s basically, you know, it’s Where’s Waldo? It’s a matter of taking Waldo and putting a highlighter on it. And all of a sudden you sit there going, okay? There’s the highlighter on Waldo, I can find them right away. Instead of having to search all over the piece of paper looking for Waldo, the SEO is a highlighter. And yeah, here’s here’s the bad news about SEO, SEO, you know, if we’re looking at Google, and how people find it, if you’re not number one, two, or three on a Google search, you might as well be disappear. You know, anybody who’s on page two, of a Google search list doesn’t really exist, unless, you know, unless somebody is really out there looking, you know, and they’re gonna, they’re gonna search and they’re gonna go for eight or 10 bids, and you never want to be part of eight or 10 bits, you know that. So there’s two things, there’s people that pay for ads to be on the top of the list, apart from the Google list, and there’s the people who do it through search engine optimization, you’ll end that’s what the thing is, the beautiful thing about a podcast is Alright, I’ve got 270 episodes of my podcast. Each one I’ve transcribed, and those transcriptions are edited. And on the actual podcast episode itself, each one of those are 6000 words. So you have 6000 words times 270 episodes of words that are Google searchable. So Google is searching, however many I mean, what is that about one, just under 1.6 million words, somewhere in somewhere in that range bit, you’ll pick a number to be able to sit there and say, What are the key words that are coming up over and over and over again. And when people are searching for those particular words, my website, yo goes up and rank because those words show up over and over and over again. And that’s that’s what, you know, the the magic of SEO. And you know what, there’s a lot of good things about SEO, there’s a lot of bad things about SEO, it’s up to you to be able to sit there and say, What are you really trying to achieve, and be able to build your strategy based on that.

Tim Kubiak 27:07
And I’ll give you one, I’ll go one more on this one. And that is you talked about, nobody really cares if you’re on a podcast, but if they Google your name, and your name comes up, in a way, it’s third party validation. And it’s still what you say to your point earlier, but it is, wait, this guy isn’t an expert, or this person’s an expert on this subject? Because look, you know, so and so had the right in a while they’ve been on 50 of these. And by the way, I think the average podcast gets under 110 lessons.

Ben Baker 27:40
If you look at if you’re lucky, if you get 10 lessons on an average podcast. Yeah. You know, and that’s just it. You know, and a lot of it comes down to people trust people they trust, you know, people trust people, they trust you. And if you’re on the podcast of somebody that’s that they already trust, then your level of trust goes up. If all of a sudden, you saw me on the Tim Ferriss podcast, all of a sudden by cachet my level of expertise, goes up a hundredfold, not because of me, not because of my brilliance. It’s because that people know God knows how many millions of people trust Tim Ferriss. Yeah. And I get painted with his brush. Yeah, yeah. So that’s, that’s the beautiful thing about being on a podcast. It’s, it’s like it’s like having a great Yelp review. If you’ve got great Yelp reviews, guess what? When if you’ve got 100 great web reviews and one bad one, that that bad one is negated. Nobody cares about that one, bad one. But if there’s 75, bad ones, and 25 good ones. Trust me. No one’s coming to your restaurant.

Tim Kubiak 28:51
Yep. We had one of those recently in St. Louis here. We shouldn’t read the reviews. There you go. And any closing thoughts?

Ben Baker 29:01
Yeah, my closing thought is you’ll come out to communicate your why calm. That’s, that’s the main website, it’ll tell you all about the program and tell you about what we’re doing. What we’re building, you know, the goal is, is to have a whole bunch of podcasts that are going to cross-pollinate. So people are interested in real estate are going to be needing information on insurance. People need to think about insurance are also going to need mortgage brokers. They’re also going to needs people who can buy to do service on their homes and a variety of other things. So what we’re trying to do is build a classification a podcast, that cross-pollinate, so, therefore, everybody keeps coming back because they’re looking for something different based on where they are in their world. And that that’s what we’re trying to create.

Tim Kubiak 29:48
Yeah, in for everyone here. This is not a sponsored conversation. I was lucky enough to get a preview of this from Ben, right when he first came up with the idea probably within a week or two of it starting and it’s Something that I watch. And as I work with sales clients, I look at how they struggle with marketing and I’m not the marketing guy. And this just made a lot of sense to me. So, Ben, thanks so much for time.

Ben Baker 30:12
Hey Tim. I really appreciate it.

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