Fearless Calling

Fearless Calling is a learnable skill. Getting the first appointment with a new prospect is one of the keys to a successful sales career.  Joe Pici has helped thousands of sales professionals set more appointments.  Come away from today’s podcast with a plan to set more appointments and begin calling on prospects fearlessly.

Joe Pici

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Transcript from Fearless Calling

Tim Kubiak 0:03
All right. Thanks for listening to bow ties in business. I’m your host Tim Kubiak. And as always, you can find us at bow ties in business on Facebook and Instagram and bow ties and bi z on Twitter. You can find me at Tim Kubiak at Tim kubiak.com, Twitter and everywhere else in the world. We’re gonna have a fun conversation today. And I’m gonna call it sales guys in a sweater. Got Joe peachy on with me. He’s a highly ranked sought after trainer, speaker and coach. And Joe, I’m gonna let you introduce yourself because I won’t do you justice. So tell us a bit about yourself?

Joe Pici 0:35
Well, you know, I’m Joe peachy, and basically what we specialize, but I mean, I’ll tell you about us through what we do. And we specialize in helping people really find many ways of generating leads, and then really how to pick up that phone and get a qualified appointment. And then the whole consultative sales approach, whether it’s virtual, or live. And you know, we mostly work I know, Tim, you’re you’re a strategist, I mean, you’re a trainer, you’re a strategist and 80% of what we do is really with the actual foot soldiers to people who are in the field selling. And, you know, the other thing is we only trained speaking coach on what we do to grow our own business.

Tim Kubiak 1:18
And that’s great. So let’s talk about that, because that’s one of the areas I really believe is overlooked. And I’ll speak to it as a former sales leader in the corporate world, right up to a year ago. Right, I did not have time to go in and be the sales coach and be the mentor to the to the people that are newer in the business. Yeah. Right. So one of the things you said to me is, you know, you work with the CEOs, you work with the sales leaders to get in the door. But at the end of the day, it’s really delivering things to, as you said, foot soldiers, right? So what were some of the gaps that you see when you go into a client that are often overlooked with new hires, or even mid career people? Well,

Joe Pici 1:59
it’s it’s new hires mid career, or even veterans because, as you know, people like yourselves, whether it was during your career, or when you became an entrepreneur, you want to work with the big picture. I mean, you want to create strategies and implement and you know, but what happens is, the gaps are gaps that weren’t around 15 years ago, which are the skills see nobody really wants to train skills to them. It’s boring, you know, and so where you work top down, we work bottom up. So we get in there with people. And we really go back to the fundamentals of communications, which I really thought at one time, everybody understood that. But I read an article in Success Magazine that 92% of sales people, I’m not talking about the people you work with executives, don’t read a lot, don’t study, they’re cracked. So we’re in there teaching them how to generate leads outside of our is their company feeding them leads, can they do it on their own, and then the number one skill we see that’s lacking is the ability to pick up the phone, be able to navigate the gatekeeper be able to get to the person with the checkbook, and be able to set a qualified meeting of all the things. That’s where we started going to market years ago. And that’s been our competitive edge.

Tim Kubiak 3:36
So let’s talk about that. Because one of the things I’ve seen is people are hiding behind, I’m gonna get leads on social media. I’m gonna I’m gonna do this through an automated email campaign with 27,000 touches, right? Talk, talk about the shortcomings of that versus actually having a conversation.

Joe Pici 3:54
All right. My wife is ranked in the top 10 women on LinkedIn, the follow, she’s not a social media expert. But when she took a LinkedIn course, she realized that most LinkedIn trainers, and this is not a put down, made their money training LinkedIn. They didn’t make their money generating leads for their own business. So when she saw that, she said, we have to find a way to make LinkedIn an outbound tool. Now we’re not into sending all those touch points. I get them offline as quickly as possible. As soon as I can get a number. I don’t care if it’s a website, I don’t care what it is. I’m picking up the phone, and I’m making that call. So all the funnels have funneling in. That’s good. That’s inbound marketing. But at some point in time, we have to develop outbound sales skills.

Tim Kubiak 4:51
So you know, it’s funny I am, so I’ve worked in distributor, right. And then there were three classes of inside salespeople if you will, right. One of which was doing a lot of order processing. So these were the kids that sat there with their cans their bt headset on. I love the cup.

Unknown Speaker 5:10
Man. Yeah,

Tim Kubiak 5:11
I live on coffee, but mine doesn’t have my name on it.

Joe Pici 5:15
sales. You’re drinking coffee?

Tim Kubiak 5:18
Yeah, we do Joe coffee is for closers, right.

You know, in your head, these kids that just sit there at the keyboard all day long every day. They weren’t selling anything. yet. They they’d be walking around. I did 10 million this month. Yeah. Yeah, you took an email when you entered it, that’s not selling, right. And then you had the people that were actually doing some live coding and interaction, but it was response based. And then you had this little group in the corner, right? That kind of abandoned misfits that were the ones making all the outbound calls, getting all the new hammering it. They’re hammering it, right? And in you sit down, and every year in annual reviews, people would say, I want to make as much as x. Yeah. Great. You got to do X is junk. Yeah. But I did $100 million last year. Yes, you typed in $100 million worth of orders, you did not sell $100 million.

Joe Pici 6:11
It’s funny, I gotta give you a quick and I was on a podcast, and I always give away something free. And with your permission, I’ll do that, of course, free ecourse on recapture lost revenue through virtual selling, so I’ll give that later. But anyway, I did that. And some guy from Michigan, looked at my LinkedIn profile. That’s all he did. Well, I said, Hey, thanks for viewing my profile. Let’s connect he did and his contact information was there. I just picked up the phone. And for three and a half months, he did not take or return my phone call. But that’s life. Yeah. And I picked up the phone one Thursday, and he picked up the phone. I said, Ken, this is your PG, PG PG burst out laughing and I’ve been following you for three and a half months. I said great. I gave my value proposition. We went to core story, which is our sales meeting. We went to proposal. His company it was 100% inbound sales. Okay. Yep. He was he’s a fractional CEO turnaround guy. His mandate that he wants to increase sales 20% of the revenue he wanted to come from outbound. His people never did outbound. So he flies with them to our sales Bootcamp, we got a three day sales bootcamp. And it’s not a Kumbaya thing I can tell you, cuz we’re gonna do intense training on day one, our communications, then we’re going into messaging and scripting value propositions lead gen. on day three. Everybody who comes is making outbound calls. About 90% of them have never done that. It’s amazing. We only allow 20 people we made 500 calls, we had a 70% conversion to appointment. Wow, we got through 92% of the gatekeepers, and we got 47 return phone calls the same day. Now why can we do that? Because that’s our niche. But this CEO is the first CEO in me that went through the training with the sales reps. When he saw what happened, he hired me to do sales meetings with them and coach their people. So from November 1 until December 26, we closed $74,000 worth of outbound business, and people go, how can you do that? Because whereas you Tim, you’re the expert at changing sales cultures from the top down. I’m the expert at changing sales coaching culture from the bottom up. Okay. And so what happens is, once that belief window opens up, then they’re more open to people like you. Yeah,

Tim Kubiak 9:04
yeah, that’s right. You know, that’s interesting. So, I’ve got to ask if these people weren’t going outbound, and you got them making calls. What was the panic level? What was the anxiety level in these folks when they came into the club when

Joe Pici 9:16
they first because this is what happens? About 85% of the people now we’re in Florida, we’re in the wild west. So the training was live. Okay. So I always set up the room Sunday, and then I stay at that hotel because like I said, a lot of those people flew in. So I I meet them like Sunday afternoon, Sunday night, and you could see apprehension, it’s like, it’s kind of like they’re glad to see me, but they wish they didn’t come. Yeah. So we have coffee and we smile and we pretend we like each other because they’re not sure about this. Right, right. Day one. It’s intense communication styles, how you sell each behavior, listening. I mean, we get into it, and they love that Because there’s no challenge learning communication stuff, day two is the most intense day, we literally pull their business apart and start building about their uniqueness, their value propositions, their target market their product, the benefit, by the time we get done with that section, which is six of the eight hours, the game starts to change in their mind, because now for the first time, they know what to do, but why they’re doing it and how to do it. A lot of them had never gone to the depth of that understanding, then we do lead generation. But here’s the game, Wednesday morning, they walk in, and now we’ve changed the room. We don’t want this to sound like a call center. And I use a Spring Hill suites that usually empty during the day, because it’s a business convention area. And so I have permission to have him out by the pool to have him in the lobby to have him in a room, I spread them out. And it’s like starting a car in Michigan in February.

Unknown Speaker 11:08
It’s in a,

Unknown Speaker 11:09
I have a second home in Michigan, I know exactly what that feels like.

Joe Pici 11:13
All of a sudden, we start doing it. And all of a sudden, you watch every one of them and it goes from this is not gonna work to this is not so bad. To Oh, this person, thank me for calling. Because the value proposition is the key, the scripting, you know, and when I go into CEOs, they’ll say, You know why people don’t like scripting. And I say, look, the best actors in the world are Italian. But Chino, I mean, Sylvester Stallone, and they’re all scripted. Yeah, I said scripts that are mastered, don’t sound like a script. Well, all of a sudden, I don’t get on the board. I don’t go near it. They chart the results, but they don’t put their name on it. And then I get a highly intellectual person who’s in the room. That’s very data driven. And they oversee that process. So it’s not Joe putting the numbers on the board. And the numbers start to populate. All of the fear and trepidation starts to go down. And their confidence goes up. And now they’ve mastered the hardest skill there is in sales. Yeah, okay. Now. As soon as that’s over, I do post coaching, because then the afternoon we go into presentation and priority management, but the room turns into a circus because they’ve now defeated Goliath. All the fears they’ve had their whole life. Were unfounded. Yeah. But here’s the other thing, in that, in that time, without even trying, we always close money too. So we literally closed about $300,000 worth of real money. And it’s like, just because the process because I teach them if this person wants to go to meeting Now, here’s how you conduct your virtual meeting. So they’re their arm. So it doesn’t matter if I go into a corporation, or they come to our boot camp or work with him privately, until you actually get on the phone. You haven’t done anything, because I don’t believe in roleplay I believe in real play.

Tim Kubiak 13:34
So I’m gonna tell a story I don’t normally tell publicly. Alabama is my testing ground every time I’ve run something, whether it’s a client or whether it was my own role, right? I get my lead list. I look at Alabama and say Alabama is my burn state. This is where everybody has their learning curve. And it’s not no offense to Alabama intended. Right, but I know I’m not going to hit any major metros, generally speaking, the people there tend to be a little more patient than when I you know, when I was younger in my career, I made everybody cold call Brooklyn instead, right? Yeah. Yeah, let’s

Joe Pici 14:05
just go after it.

Tim Kubiak 14:07
Yeah, yeah. You know, at the time, I was in Pennsylvania, and I had the Northeast, so it made sense.

Unknown Speaker 14:13
But, you know, I’m, so it’s interesting. How do they do they come in with a list? Do you have

Joe Pici 14:20
a list? Do we send out homework? Okay, they have got, I don’t care. I hate this. I wouldn’t care if they went in the Yellow Pages. I don’t care who they bring in. But it’s got to be in a target market. Now. 95% of them bring in a cold list and have not done their homework, but they bring in a list that is people they’ve always wanted to call but they were afraid to

Unknown Speaker 14:46
do interesting,

Joe Pici 14:46
okay. Okay. And I tell them that don’t bring in a list of people you’ve talked to before. This is new business acquisition. Yeah. Okay. We’re not calling our cousin. Yeah, I got a friend who goes, you know, you’re not the only guy in the world that does this. He says, I went to a seminar and there was a sales coach and he stood in the middle of room and he made a call. I said, Did he get everybody else on the phone? No. I said, Well, that’s not what I do. I’m not afraid of the phone. I can book appointments. I can get them to do it. Yeah, he goes, You mean to tell me you get people on the phone? Calling prospects in real time? I said, I won’t even take the contract. They won’t if that’s not part of it. Yeah. And so it I’ll tell you one thing though, it is the most exhilarating and that’s the piece they remember. Failing they never forget that and here’s another thing from a coaching standpoint, from that point on it makes them much more pliable. Okay, yeah,

Tim Kubiak 15:52
you use they’ve slayed Goliath in that is so true for so many people. I can even think of guys that are million dollar a year sellers now that when their accounts turnover, right, and a lot of what I do is are you caught on the CEO? Are you caught on the CFO that right? You build those relationships as part of the sales strategy? But when those positions turnover, watching people that are making mid six below seven figures, freeze, because oh my god, I don’t know this guy, I could lose this account. You know? Yeah.

Joe Pici 16:24
And we’ve all lost clients, anybody who said they hasn’t lost client is either lying or they have an admin.

Tim Kubiak 16:31
Yeah. Or they haven’t been in the business longer night.

Joe Pici 16:34
The what happens? You know, it’s like, when COVID hit in 30 minutes, we lost 85 grand, just bam. And my wife is my partner we’ve been together like for we’ve been together for 50 years, we’ve been partners since 1992. So she says to me, what are we going to do? I said, What have we always done? I said, I’ve always sold virtually now the only thing we have to decide is what can we deliver virtually. And we made it all back in two and a half weeks. Because the price I don’t believe in selling from charisma and talent, because I was never blessed with it. Either of those are like the processes communications and skills. And as you know, you can teach that.

Tim Kubiak 17:17
Yes. Yeah, yeah, we’re platform process. Right? driven even at the planning level. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 17:24
Yeah, for sure.

Tim Kubiak 17:27
So you hit on something that’s a really hot topic. So I’m sure you’re killing it with it, because you’re out in front of it. But, you know, I saw everybody in the world run and go, how do I do virtual selling now? Right, I can’t get in front of my clients. And the truth is, I’ve been doing it my whole career. Right? You sounds like you’ve been doing it your whole career. advice to people that used to be that face to face seller.

Joe Pici 17:51
You know, and that’s the key. That’s, you just said a mouthful. That’s what we’re getting a lot of Joe, I’ve been a face to face seller my whole life. What do I do? And the first thing I’ll say is, are you more with charisma and talent? Or do you have a process and here’s what I’ve learned mostly from people who are face to face sellers. They’re more schmoozers.

Unknown Speaker 18:18
They know their wines.

Joe Pici 18:20
And I created a, it’s called a core story is five steps to the sales meeting. It can be a five minute it can be an hour, but it’s still five steps. And so when we’re moving into the virtual selling, I always tell people have a sales document in front of you. And follow your process and ask more questions. Okay, Mm hmm. And, and so I would tell that veteran of face to face selling, go back, and don’t be afraid to relearn. Because once you build that virtual selling skill, and it is a skill, then the game is over, because now you have another very important bullet in the gun. Because here’s another thing that we’re seeing a lot of corporations now are saying to their sales reps. We’re gonna cut our budgets now. Now that we’ve had to use technology, you better get good at selling through zoom.

Tim Kubiak 19:26
Yep. Yeah. So look, I’ll use my old travel budget, right. I used to, you know, in corporate life, I had a big number, but I had a 50 to $100,000 travel budget just for myself. Right, right. And the truth is, I can have the top tier resume for a fraction of a plane ticket.

Joe Pici 19:47
You know, in what, what I realized was because behind you in front of me, one of my wife or I track everything like because you’re a process guy because you’re data driven. I can tell Anybody who does what you do is about data. Yep. When I became more data driven, the board behind you is my proposal board. So I track where my leads are coming from, we have 22 ways of generating leads, then how many phone calls, convert to appointments? those appointments are called your core stories that’s all over my whiteboards. I don’t have any, any famous pictures of me with like Zig, or any of those. I’m not a picture guy. I’m a whiteboard guy, right? So right, but the most important board in my whole office is right over there. And it’s how many formal proposals go out every month. That’s the game.

Tim Kubiak 20:45
So as a planning guy, as a strategy guy, how did you get to your metric?

Joe Pici 20:49
How did I do what?

Tim Kubiak 20:51
How did you decide how many need to go out? How did you get to your own metric on that? I’m a data guy. Remember?

Joe Pici 20:57
It used to be years ago, if I did 20 quality core stories or sales meetings a month, it generated about 300 k? Nice, that’s good. Those numbers did that. Then I went, I don’t want to play at that level, I want to play at a higher level, I’m going to move the metric to proposals. And so now, my goal is to get out minimum 25 formal proposals a month. And I don’t say hey, Tim, I’ll send you a proposal. I say, Tim, would you like a formal proposal? If they don’t say yes, that they don’t get one that match that little sentence change changes the metric? Yeah. If you ask for a proposal. Great. But if I say I’m sending you one closing ratios go down. Yep.

Tim Kubiak 21:59
Yeah, yeah. You’re doing with you? Yeah. Yeah, it’s perfect. Cuz I love numbers. Right. And that’s, you know, when it’s funny, you talk about being data driven. I still like things that are not necessarily popular in modern sales culture. I like sales, leaderboards, I like to know where everybody is, right. And the other thing is, it’s really funny because I, in my case, I start talking to people, they’re like, oh, we’re going to do X calls, we’re going to do this many check ins, we’re going to do this many and they have this much talk time. Great. How much are you going to sell? Right?

Joe Pici 22:35
You know, the companies that are the best at getting data, but using data, do the best. And I like to work, the sales teams, I’m coaching. They run everything off a dashboards. And during the sales meeting, the dashboard comes up. Yep. Now, because I I mastered the communication style disc, Master trainers of disk, but we don’t get into all that assessment stuff. It’s because you can change tomorrow. Yeah, but what we’ve learned is there are two behavior styles that hate competition. So now you have a dashboard come up. So the way we handle the dashboard is not who’s best. Okay, john has closed this much. Now we use the data and naked determine who’s number one. All right, yep. But the data is really important because it doesn’t lie.

Tim Kubiak 23:46
It doesn’t. You know, it’s funny, though, I spent a lot of time and I, I believe CRMs have a place and have a lot of value, right? But I spend a lot of time making fun of CRM, especially with clients. Because you walk in the door and they’ll go, I have I have 4002 deals at stage seven. Great. What do you know about the deal? Right, which is really what I do. Right? At the end of the day, I asked the stupid simple questions. What do you know about the deal? What’s their buying process? Who’s gonna sign the contract? Who’s gonna cut the check? Who has to approve it? Who really approves it? Right and people go well, no, it’s you know, it’s Joe. He’s been a perfect Yeah, it’s in stage seven. It’s gonna come in great convinced me.

Joe Pici 24:29
Yeah, well, things is you know, things go sideways so quickly. And you know, when it’s funny because we’re kind of cut from the same cloth and except when people tell me the great and sales, all I say to him, great, Howard, how are your numbers? If you’re great at sales, you have great numbers. Yep. And I always see, you know, people say, well, Joe, will you help us hire No,

Unknown Speaker 24:56

Joe Pici 24:56
What should we do hire, hire self discipline. ambition, and we can teach them how to sell. If they’re lazy, or they don’t have self discipline, they’re not gonna make it. Yeah,

Tim Kubiak 25:07
Yeah, it does. And that’s a great point. Because lately, people are confronted a lot when they’re hiring sales. How am I going to train my new hires? They’re gonna be remote. I can’t bring them into the office. If you can’t teach them and you don’t have the processes or earlier conversation to do it remotely. You don’t need them. They’re not the right person.

Joe Pici 25:25
I did a live outbound telephone call training through zoom the other day. Yeah, we just kept it open. Yeah. And, and so after they get off the phone, they all stopped for a second I coach him, we get back on the phone. But again, it’s, you know, sales is a what you do is complicated. What I do is not complicated. And so when people say no to me, more times, they say no, to me, it’s not about the money. It’s about they’re not ready to face that animal there. Yeah. Because they know if they work with me, we’re gonna tear the band aid off. Yeah.

Tim Kubiak 26:03
Yeah. Yeah. You know, I jokingly call myself forensic sales management. Yep. Right. In my best customers are the ones. That’s how we got this. We never need you. We don’t hire outside people. But at that time, we lost a $10 million deal. It had two and a half million dollars in margin on it. We don’t know why we lost it. I’m like, Well, I don’t know why you lost it either. But you didn’t hire me. So let’s go look at it.

Joe Pici 26:26

Unknown Speaker 26:28

Joe Pici 26:30
You know, I was selling to a CEO the other day, he goes, Well, Joe, I just, I just can’t get through the fact of having to pay you to train people that should already know this. And I say okay. I have to ask one more question before we get off the phone. You know, have you considered the consequences of we if that if we don’t get them better? Yeah. Have you looked at possible lost revenue? You know what he said to me? Because, man, that hurts. I didn’t say another word, yet.

Tim Kubiak 27:10
Yeah, so it’s interesting, I find in my business, and for any sales managers listening, this might be the gold, in my opinion, I find everybody wants to bring me the C and D players. Right? I’ve got this part of my organization that isn’t working, we need to do that. And my starting point really is great. Where you’re a player’s and where you’re being plus and moving towards a player’s while they’re here. But they’re, they’re doing great because they carry 90% of my number. That’s great. But if you’re a player’s became a plus players, and you’d be players became a players or a minus players, and did 20% more or 10% more than they’re going to do anyhow, that that pays for me.

Joe Pici 27:50
Right? Right. Always. Yeah.

Tim Kubiak 27:53
You know, and they’re like, well, then what do we do with our C players? Well, if you can’t get him to B or B plus, then you’ve got some staffing decisions. And that’s a separate scope of work. In my case.

Joe Pici 28:01
You either fix them or fire them. Yeah. Sales is hire slow fire fast. Yeah. Because I’ve never seen people slow play into ambition. No, they either want to make money or they don’t. And that also has a lot to do with their commission structure. And I know you probably help people with their commission structure.

Tim Kubiak 28:22
I spend a lot of time with comp plans. Right. I spent the last two months with clients. And it’s interesting. So I work with hiring individuals that I work with companies, right? And the first time you have this conversation with an individual, Joe, how much you’re gonna make next year? And how are you going to make it? Well, I don’t run the company while you run your own business. Your coin operated? You’re 80% Commission, you’re 100% Commission. What do you mean, you don’t run your own business? Exactly. Right. And and it really, it’s simple, by the way, it’s simple. It’s just the discipline of doing it. Where are you selling? Where do you need to sell? What’s your goal, your goal, not the company’s goal. And that’s the thing salespeople no matter the comp plan, get wrong. Oh, the company says my goal is is great. What’s your goal? What do you want to get out of this? You know, and you know, I also love that, well, they’ll jack my plan next year, well, then maybe you’re working at the wrong place. Right? Or, you know, cashing out and go I know people that work somewhere three to five years, make a boatload of money and then go somewhere else because they can’t beat the comp plan because it’s a big corporation. Most smaller, medium sized businesses, you don’t have that problem.

Unknown Speaker 29:29
Right, exactly.

Tim Kubiak 29:33
So what’s the craziest thing that’s ever happened to you on a sales call?

Joe Pici 29:41
When you need a sales call, you mean booking an appointment or in the appointment

Tim Kubiak 29:45
in you can take it either way? Because we see a lot of bugs, but I’m just curious.

Joe Pici 29:53
I don’t want to sound like I don’t get stuff. But really because of the way I perceive Everything, I don’t get a lot of crazy, because I don’t overcome objections. I don’t talk people into meetings. And they know exactly why we’re having the meeting. So if I called you up and I say, Tim we work with, we work with sales professionals to generate better leads, book quality appointments and close more business. I don’t say anything. And then you say that and I go, is it worth 20 minutes for me to show you how we can help you get in front of your target market? Close more business? That’s a yes, no answer. If you say no, I’m done. Yeah, when I get there virtually or face to face, Tim, when I called you, I stated, I can help your team generate better leads book more appointments, close more business? Is that why we’re here today? Now, just because of the simplicity of what I just said, I get everything. I don’t walk in and look at the fish on the wall. I don’t do the old thing about trying to build a fake relationship. Yeah, I get. And because of the style of that. I don’t get a lot of random stuff. You know what I mean? I do actually.

Tim Kubiak 31:12
Right, so So what one of the things one of my personal theories is, the best salespeople aren’t the people that look like the best salespeople? It’s not the glad handers? Look, there’s no doubt that you know, those relationship sellers charisma, let’s have dinner types. There are a number of them that do okay. But most of them in my opinion are middle of the pack lower half of the pack. Right? Because the truth is serious. People want serious concise conversations. I can do more in 30 minutes than some people can do in six months. No question and, and I call it polite directness.

Joe Pici 31:49
Yeah, I am polite, but I am direct. I will never confuse anyone. Yeah. And you know, most sales people talk about so much periphery. They give the client too much to think about.

Unknown Speaker 32:02
Yeah. Yeah,

Tim Kubiak 32:03
I was working with a young CEO a couple weeks ago, very talented young man, technically brilliant. And he laid something out for me. And I’m like, Okay, great. Why would I buy it? He’s like, well, it does this and it does this. Okay, I’m in your, in we do this journey of a buyer who’s getting who’s gonna say yes. Who’s gonna say no? Why? Well, you know, trigger points. All that no, it’s basic. It’s not hard stuff. Right. But people don’t look at it that way. Like, I don’t know why I’m buying this, by the way, you know, we’re talking about me running a sales order for you. And I don’t really understand why anybody wants this. Right. Right. You know, and it was one, you know, it was one of those. It’s like, No, no, there has to be a business value. It has to solve a problem. I have to have a need. If I don’t have a need, then that’s great. On the next day, but what is that need?

Joe Pici 32:50
And I think what you just said, is a mouthful, because most people don’t know how to do discovery. They’re selling a product, not a solution. Yeah. And that’s why people push back. That’s why people become remorse buyers. That’s why people change their mind. That’s why people stopped returning phone calls because they were buying a gadget. They weren’t buying the result of the gadget.

Tim Kubiak 33:22
Yeah. Now it’s interesting. People always say, Oh, you know, blah, blah, blah, your salesman. I’ve actually never made anyone buy anything. I’ve simply found a need and solved it.

Joe Pici 33:34
Exactly. And if what I do cannot solve your problem, believe me, that’s gonna be a short meeting.

Tim Kubiak 33:40
Exactly. And I’m not gonna, I’m not gonna convince you. I’m not. Now I don’t have a magic potion. I don’t have a magic pill. You know, and you probably run into this, right? The hardest thing to do is do the hard deck, right? Whether it’s making the cold call or having the direct conversation or whatever. Don’t razzle dazzle them, you know?

Joe Pici 33:59
No. People say, Well, are you just about cold calling? I said, No, it doesn’t matter if it’s warm, hot, cold, or whatever. The only difference is, if you have if it’s a warm lead, or if you have a referral. That’s the beginning. But everything else is the same. There is no difference. No, I said and your brother will say no to you. So why would the call be different? That’s

Tim Kubiak 34:26
perfect. They’re more likely to say no to you.

Joe Pici 34:28
Yeah. You know, I remember you when you when you know your shorts. Exactly.

Tim Kubiak 34:37
So, trying to think we talked about data, we talked about building a less than assembling a list. One of the challenges I see is, and you probably get hit with it all the time, three times a day, I’ve got a list broker is gonna sell me a magic list.

Unknown Speaker 34:56
Say that again.

Tim Kubiak 34:57
So three times a day. I have somebody who’s listening who’s going to sell me a magic list that’s gonna, you know, make me another seven figures in revenue next year because I bought their lists for, you know, x hundreds of dollars. How do you have that conversation when you’re teaching people to bring that list? To understand who their target clients?

Joe Pici 35:17
First of all, I’m not a big list buyer. And when my clients asked me, What do you think about buying a list? I’ll always say, Have you already done it? Mm hmm. Why? Because if you’ve already done it, you’re looking for approval not coaching. Right? What? I’m not real big on buying lists, because they’re selling the same list to your competitors. Yep. And they’re also not vetting that list. And so a lot of people on that list have moved or dead or whatever. And so again, I think, I think what we’ve gotten to in sales, is that we’ve turned sales professionals into, well, if my company is not gonna spend this much money on advertising to create the funnel, I’m at a business. I’m working with a staffing company. And they have different divisions and wonder verticals is in public accounting, and finance. Okay. All right now, we helped that division become one of the best verticals, but leads slowed down, and so they pay me to coach their people. So I said to this one guy said, Joe, yeah. Haven’t you worked with my wife on being able to generate leads on LinkedIn? He goes, Yeah, I said, so what’s the problem? Why aren’t you doing that? I said, Are you gonna wait till they turn the faucet back on? is it part of your committee? is it part of your income on commission? Yeah. I said, Well, you’re acting like an employee. Mm hmm. So I always believe that I’m not a real advocate of this. But I always believe that the best salespeople, they’re willing to accept inbound leads. I’m not saying that they like them, and they want them however, they’re not dead in the water. If it slows down, they know how to generate a lead.

Tim Kubiak 37:16
Yeah. Yeah. And so I’ve been through all of the different online services, get this sea levels name get. But to your point, it’s all already out there. If you know, who’s who your target prospects are and who your target customers are.

Joe Pici 37:33
You can’t hide anymore. No, there is no hiding. No, say Don’t ever call a website, one 800. Number. Why? Why? If you got a good script, and you know how to navigate whoever answers the phone? Yeah, who cares? I just need a phone number.

Tim Kubiak 37:53
Yeah, that’s right. And the other part of that is, is it’s one of my themes for the year. Right is follow up and follow through. Because I think that’s where so many salespeople, even good ones leave money on the table.

Joe Pici 38:08
We? Well, here’s statistics for your a data guy, you’ll love this. 85% of all sales happens between the six and a 15. Contact.

Unknown Speaker 38:19
Makes sense. Now.

Joe Pici 38:22
90% of salespeople stop after the first call. Yep.

Unknown Speaker 38:28
Yep, stop, stop.

Joe Pici 38:31
90% of all the sales in this country are done by 15% of the sales reps.

Unknown Speaker 38:38
That doesn’t surprise me.

Joe Pici 38:40
Yep. Here’s another 65% of the population are slow processors. Which means they’re not buying right now. So if you’re a one call close guy. You may get the fast pace people but you’re not getting the slow pace. Pete. Yeah. It took me eight and a half years to get an AI real vessel Coldwell Banker, commercial real estate, eight years. It took me 10 years to get BlueCross and BlueShield. What I just followed up, it was no big deal. So where most people don’t, as you said, Don’t follow up. As we’ve all heard, the fortune is in the follow up. Yes. A follow up has to be part of your sales process.

Tim Kubiak 39:24
It does. It requires as much or more discipline than the first part.

Unknown Speaker 39:29
Mm hmm.

Tim Kubiak 39:30
Yeah. Yeah. It’s, uh, you know, it’s so funny. You think of people, you know, and I’m thinking of some of the younger people I hired in recent roles. Right. And there was one young lady all the touton world. She’s like, but they might not need what I have. Okay. They might not need it today. We know they’re in your industry. We know they’re consuming this from somewhere. Right? Yeah, absolutely. In this case, we knew that were part of an authorized program to use this product. Okay? Whether they need it every 18 months or every month, different matter, you know, but she’d be like, yeah, they just said they don’t need it. And literally, when she resigned, we found a drawer. And for those of you watching YouTube, it was like this deep with people, she never called back.

Joe Pici 40:24
Look, I have said and teach this. If I get a note from Tim, I say, Tim, would it be worth 20 minutes for me to explain exactly how we can blank blank blank? I’d like to line up as your number two. Why would you want to be number two? Well, you never know, something could happen. Number one, I would love to be 100 companies. Number two, because I know number one is going to mess up somewhere. And I want to be top of mind with that company.

Tim Kubiak 40:55
You know, that’s a brilliant point that so many people don’t make, right? If you’re on the list, if you’re there, if you’re not one, you know, table scraps can be super profitable,

Joe Pici 41:05
you know, and sometimes they bring you in for something extra, and all of a sudden you blow the doors off, and they’re going, you know, I work with a lot of property and casualty insurance people. And this one woman who really wasn’t selling a whole lot because she didn’t have skills, her father got her a deal. And, you know, so we did this hole? Would it be worth 20 minutes for me make sure you have no gaps in your coverage. And you have no liability issues. Well, why would you want to do that I already use my brother. I’d like to line up as your number two. Well, she goes in and she finds three gaps, that we’re highly liable gaps. And she says I’m not trying to get you to fire your brother in law. But here’s what I see. He did a letter of transfer for 14 restaurants. Wow. All of a sudden, she went from number 30 out of a 30 person insurance company to number three. Yeah, cuz she’d never, you know, I think I think sales people, no matter how they think they think they’re consultative, but they’re really transactional. If you don’t say Yes, today, consultative is you know what? I’m gonna keep so much in the funnel. Eventually, you’ll probably work with me.

Tim Kubiak 42:32
Eventually, everybody needs something. Right? Yeah. Yeah. You know, that’s the other thing, right? balance of a book of business. How one thing can change that? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. You know,

Joe Pici 42:49
I mean, yeah, one call and you never know. You know, you never know what that one call you didn’t want to make will lead to I mean, many, many years ago. Now. We’re going almost into our ninth year. We were not working in the franchise industry. Yeah. And I got I, I heard about this company in Tampa. It was a rent to own model. Okay. I call the CEO navigated, gatekeeper. It was a retail franchise, which everybody said, your stuff doesn’t work there. And All I said was we specialize in helping to increase foot traffic and close more business. Yeah, he goes, alright. Is it worth me driving one hour from Orlando to Tampa, to show you how you can increase your bottom line and get more people in the store? So that was the conversation. Yes, I drive there. We Institute outbound calls. Not only do we do in Florida, their franchise, it turns into. So I look at the second half of it. You got sales. What else do they need? collections. We created consultative collections. Now that’s really now. I think about that was a Friday afternoon call. It’s been nine years. What if I didn’t make that call? And here’s the other thing. They were a business that stayed open during this pandemic? nationally, huh? Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 44:36
Yeah, yeah. Now kind of going down that road. It was something we talked about when we were first getting to know each other.

Joe Pici 44:42
You don’t just do B to B to B to C to actually our B to C business saved our butts this year. Because b2b is when I go into a company, or sometimes they’ll send some people be to see our small businesses. owners, individuals. And so a lot of them, I’m either coaching them or they come into our sales bootcamp. But we have another vertical. We work with speakers, trainers, coaches and consultants, not on how to speak train coaching consult, but we work with them on the business side. Because most speakers, trainers, coaches and consultants struggle to get clients struggle with their messaging. And so we have a three day training on the business of speaking training coach. That right there was a vertical that stayed alive for us, and so are B. And then I do a lot of coaching for entrepreneurs. And you know, so our b2b business, you know, we have multiple streams of income inside their own business, some people diversify outside their business. I’m not smart enough for that. I have to diversify inside our business. So we do have a big b2b and we have a b2c.

Unknown Speaker 46:02
Do you find difference in the salespeople? between those two segments? Oh,

Joe Pici 46:07
yeah. It’s just like, when you walk into a place, and you’re the outsider coming in, but you’re dealing with employees at five o’clock, they’re hitting the parking lot. Mm hmm. And the consulting or training has been paid for by the company. Mm hmm. In our b2c business, they’re paying their own way. Our three day sales, bootcamp has a much higher intensity level. And people aren’t. They’re coming in early. They’re not looking for the door at five o’clock, because they’re paying their own way. They have a vested interest. Yeah.

Tim Kubiak 46:51
Yeah. It’s funny. So what one of the things that, you know, conversations I enjoyed having with other guests last fall was who should be a business owner versus who shouldn’t? Right. And so it was a fun conversation, because those, those solopreneurs are those small business owners? They are they’re their own cash cow. To your point.

Joe Pici 47:16
Right. I think one of the reasons why businesses fail, is business owners walk into a business with the same mentality they had when they were employees. And look, I’m not this is not a blanket statement, because I know employees that absolutely treat their job like they own it. And I’m not talking about them. I’m talking about that person that thinks, oh, I opened the doors at 830. I’m going to have dinner with my family. Now, if you own your own business, you’re going to be eating a sandwich at your desk at nine o’clock at night. Yes. Yeah. That’s why business owners are always on diets, because we eat a lot of stuff that’s wrapped in a bun. Yeah.

Tim Kubiak 48:03
Yeah, that’s right. Yeah, yeah. That’s a bit business owners could benefit from that whole fitness thing on meal prep.

Unknown Speaker 48:12
Yeah, no question. Yeah,

Tim Kubiak 48:14
it’s so funny. Cuz, you know, I had that conversation with one of my daughters is like, Oh, I hate meal prep. You have the same thing over and over and over again for a week. I’m like, Look, if I can heat it up and eat it during your call and still be working.

Unknown Speaker 48:26
Why do I care?

Joe Pici 48:28
Exactly. I’ve gotten to be professional at protein bars. Yeah, yeah. tear the paper off and eat it. Exactly.

Unknown Speaker 48:36
Yeah. No, no mess. No prep, just reaching out. Yeah.

Joe Pici 48:41
So Joe, you talked earlier on, you get some things for listeners that are interesting. If people will take out their phone, and they’re going to text the word sales edge, one word, some phones will break it up, but sales edge, and they’re going to text it to 55678. That’s going to take you to a link that says peachy and peachy. If it doesn’t, it’s because it broke the word up. You hit that link, it’ll take you to a splash page. The first thing you’re going to come to is a five free video ecourse. recapture lost revenue through virtual selling your first name, your email will be sent to your email you can watch on your phone wherever. Then there’s also information on our membership training and coaching. There’s also free download ebooks, one on LinkedIn one on sales, and there’s links to our podcast and I’m going to want to get you on our podcast Tim. It’s a sales edge and it’s on all the podcast hosts. The other thing is make sure you connect with me on LinkedIn. It’s Jo PGP ici and you’ll know it’s me I’m I look Italian, I’m pointing at you. All right, you can always if you want to have a complimentary cup of joe just call me at 407-947-2590 Our website is the ici, NDP ici.com, there’s a lot of free downloads there.

Tim Kubiak 50:07
And for everyone listening that was driving and couldn’t take that down, it’s in the show notes, all you got to do is click it, you go straight to the website, and Joe has the text number and everything up on there. So So if to kind of close out, can you talk about the boot camps, what you’ve kind of hinted at them, I know they’re

Joe Pici 50:26
a big part of your success. It’s it’s they’re very unique products. The three day sales boot camp, is we only allow 20 people and we have people come from all over the country. And it literally is the complete sales process and the skills that go with it. And you’ll be making live outbound calls on the third day, we always do it in April and October. Our next one is the last week of April, we do have some seats left. And then we cap it at 20 though, then the Thursday, Friday, Saturday of that week, we have a three day boot camp on the business of speaking training, coaching consulting, and this is where we teach speakers, trainers and coaches how to monetize their intellectual property and talent. And then in the evenings, we do disc certification. So in that one week, we run three boot camps.

Tim Kubiak 51:23
That’s amazing talk about efficiency.

Joe Pici 51:26
You know, I love what we do. And it makes it better for clients because a lot of clients don’t want to fly in fly out. This is they literally if they wanted to could get three trainings in one week, or they can get one or two. It’s what they want. But we’re very serious. Our speaker bootcamp is also different because we only allow 12. For this reason, most speaker schools, nobody gets to speak. Because there’s too big, we keep it very tight. And we teach people for a presentation nerd doing on day three, a standing core story, which is they’re going to speak with the idea that whoever that audiences, people on lawns are compelled to book a meeting with them about their product or service,

Tim Kubiak 52:11
which is really the goal of most speakers.

Joe Pici 52:16
Yeah, and the problem with most speakers is they view themselves as speakers not business people, correct. Okay. And, you know, in 2008, when the entire speaking industry bottomed out, and Don and I were at our last ever convention for speakers, all the big time people, the celebrities were kind of whining, because their incomes dropped because everything dropped in 2008. Yeah, I looked at dawn, I said, we need to go home. She goes why said these famous people are whining. I said, I haven’t told you this. But we’re tripling our income this year, in a worst economy of our lifetime. We need to go home and find out what we’re doing. what we realized was because we don’t have a silver spoon, we have to learn the business side. And we had to learn how to acquire clients.

Tim Kubiak 53:03
Yeah. Yeah, you know, it’s funny, I looked at, I’ve seen some great speakers at conferences in the course of my life. But I’ve in a couple of cases, I’ve gone on to book them to speak at other things. But I’ve never bought a product from a single one.

Joe Pici 53:19
You know, if you cannot deliver results in the 21st century. People don’t want you.

Tim Kubiak 53:26
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And the results, you know, the results have

Joe Pici 53:31
to be quick. There has to be motion instantly. People don’t want to say, Well, you know, in two years. And that’s why we chose tactical skill based selling because because I wasn’t famous. I didn’t have pedigree. I had to be able to go into every company and deliver today results. And when we get on the phone, they’re booking real appointments, their investments paid for.

Tim Kubiak 53:57
Yeah. Yeah, I was thinking that when you told that earlier, right. If people are booking appointments, and driving revenue by the end of the course, they’ve got to be paying at least for the percentage, of course, if not the whole thing. Right, then they’re done.

Joe Pici 54:10
Yeah. Oh, yeah. And that’s why we also metric everything. And after a sales Bootcamp, those numbers go up on LinkedIn. And we’ll get 1000s of views for people that are waiting to see what those numbers are.

Tim Kubiak 54:24
Oh, interesting. Yeah. Yeah. If the world loves a good infographic these days,

Joe Pici 54:31
you know, somebody says, Well, that’s bragging. Now john wayne said, if it’s true, it ain’t bragging.

Unknown Speaker 54:37
Yeah, you know what numbers don’t lie. If you did the numbers, you did the numbers. If you didn’t, you didn’t.

Joe Pici 54:43
And that’s why we post it. And, and then, you know, people will reach out to me are these real numbers and I say, okay, you’re allowed to call 100% of the people on my LinkedIn profile, and ask them, did they get the return on investment? And was it true about What we delivered? Yeah.

Tim Kubiak 55:03
Yep, that’s beautiful. So what did I ask you that I should have?

Joe Pici 55:11
I know you’re really good.

Tim Kubiak 55:13
Well, thank you. I look. It’s so funny because when you do this, everybody goes, Oh, you have another sales people on our other sales trainers on their competition. Now there’s enough business for everybody in every industry. You just have to do the work.

Joe Pici 55:27
Everybody has a uniqueness. Yes. And what we’ve learned is if we stay in our lane, I don’t mess with things that you mess with why that’s your niche. That’s what you’re great at. So I don’t have to prove anything, because this is what I do. We know who we do it for. We know how to get in front of that person. There’s a lot of business out there.

Tim Kubiak 55:51
There is right. And the truth is, we hit on it earlier, people aren’t training basic skills. People aren’t really working strategy. There’s more than you can do. No,

Unknown Speaker 56:01
I agree.

Tim Kubiak 56:04
Joe, thank you so much for taking the time.

Joe Pici 56:06
Well, thank you, and I’ll be sending you some information to get you on our podcast.

Tim Kubiak 56:11
That sounds great. I look forward to it. Hey,

Joe Pici 56:13
Happy New Year.

Tim Kubiak 56:14
Happy New Year. All right. Let me hit

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